Water brothers

topic posted Fri, May 6, 2005 - 10:35 PM by  Captain
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I first read Stranger in 1969, then a student at Penn State Univ. Over the next several months, as people all around me were reading it, we soon formed our own nest of sorts...everyone within considered themselves water brothers.

Several years later....nest had dissapated a bit, we had a water brother gathering. I still have a hardcover volume of Stranger that I had all 30 people autograph who came to the gathering.

Time passed. Lost touch with almost all of my water brothers, but still have one who was my water brother in spirit long before I ever read Stranger.

Anyway....how many tribe members have people they feel are really Water Brothers in their lives?

Zane
posted by:
Captain
Atlanta
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  • Re: Water brothers

    Wed, May 11, 2005 - 12:22 PM
    My GF and I have been doing water sharing cerimonties for a 3 years.
    At first just the 2 of us, then we added my best friend. I've also helped 2 other couples do their own, but not with us.
    As I want them to be life long and really meen something we take it very slow. There are a couple of close friends who may eventualy be added in. And at burning man this year helping another couple (close friends) do it.

    We don't do it exactly like the book, books never matching real life. But take the concepts and meening. We don't always do the sexual part and have added some other bonding type things to the mix.

    So far it's worked out well as an alturnative to the legal and religious typical marrage.
    • Re: Water brothers

      Fri, January 6, 2006 - 7:53 AM
      Greetings!
      I have just joined this group today, as I was searching for some more info on water brothers.
      My boyfriend gave me a gift at Yule that he said was part of his soul...it was Stranger in a Strange Land....I have only just started reading, but I would love to know more about your water brothers ceremony that you do....if you do not mind sharing!
      Thank you very much
      Love is the Law
      angie
  • Re: Water brothers

    Wed, May 11, 2005 - 5:36 PM
    I have at one time been lucky enough to have 2 water-brothers (both female water brothers, but water brothers none the less). One decided she didn't want to play anymore. :-(

    So the remaining two of us are waiting, waiting, waiting for another. We've met plenty of people that were close, but not quite. Maybe we're too picky, but then....... waiting is.

    Ye are God,
    Otter
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      Re: Water brothers

      Fri, January 27, 2006 - 11:52 AM
      i have 2 waterbrothers. they have both been with me many years. not that i don't have many close friends, or people i would really put myself out for. but when waiting has reached fullness, you know that someone will be a part of your life forever. this is not something you can know quickly. you must wait, sometimes years, to know. to do otherwise is to diminish the meaning for others. but when you know, you have something so special it will never stop bringing you joy.
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    Re: Water brothers

    Wed, May 10, 2006 - 12:08 AM
    my two brothers and i served together in bosnia. that's just background, not basis. after i got out i needed some help. i was having trouble dealing with things and called one of them. he moved from texas to join me in mississippi the next day. since then, he and my other brother have been there for me and i for them many times. we had no formal ceremony, just an understanding that whatever was needed would be found. that has sometimes meaned some real sacrifices by one or more of us. but that is what you do when your family needs help. i don't know how to give more help than that. but i hope i have helped some.
  • Re: Water brothers

    Wed, March 21, 2007 - 5:00 PM
    I read Stranger when I was 15, and over the next few years, there were only three people with whom I had what I thought was a true understanding, and a bond of water brotherhood. I have drifted far from most of them. One I am still in touch with, and we talk on the IM. We're friends... I don't know strongly he feels, but I sttill consider the bond we have unbreakable (even though he recently "married"), and would do anything he asked of me. I feel the same way about the others. One is a woman who may still be angry at me, but I love her the same none the less in absence, and long for her a little when I see her log on to the IM. The other, I simply haven't seen in years... I should try and get in touch with him.

    They are a comfort to me in this time of lonliness, even though they are are not really in my lives, they are still my water brothers.
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    Re: Water brothers

    Fri, July 13, 2007 - 12:19 AM
    Well, it happens that I have 175 water brothers. :) My closest water brother is my wife, and together we run the Order of the Mithril Star (mithrilstar.org), a mostly online group where water-sharing is our principal sacrament.
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      Re: Water brothers

      Fri, July 13, 2007 - 1:20 AM
      I have a lot of water brothers in Church of All Worlds, North America's only recognized Pagan Church.
      Please check out their site at www.caw.org
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        Re: Water brothers

        Mon, July 16, 2007 - 12:56 PM
        CAW yes well they were one of the first to incorporate water-sharing into their rites yes.

        i was a member of the old CAW. i quit after seeing a fine man - a true bard - subjected to a kangaroo court presided over by oberon zell himself. his name was adam walks between worlds, and up until that night he was the ~official bard~ of CAW. then a few harpies falsely accused him of rape and adam was excommunicated.

        like i said, it was the last CAW meeting i've ever attended. adam was murdered a few months later. aome say the harpies sent a gollum after him. i don't know about that. frankly my former waterkin never seemed capable of any kind of really serious magicks.
  • Re: Water brothers

    Mon, July 16, 2007 - 8:31 PM
    I find this thread interesting. The way Heinlein describes water-brotherhood in his book, it strikes me as being a bond closer than most marriages. Mike, after all, would die instantly if one of his water brothers told him to do so. It's true that some groups might use a water-sharing ceremony, but in the spirit that Heinlein meant the term, I wouldn't make a person a water brother unless I loved them enough that I was willing to die for them, at minimum.
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      Re: Water brothers

      Mon, July 16, 2007 - 9:00 PM
      Yes...unfortunately human fallacy sometimes complicates things... Unconditional love for yourself is a tremendously significant part of the formula... Once that is attained, water-brotherhood is possible on many deep levels. There are deep interplays with perception and projection of the ego that interrupt the joy and purity of waterbrotherhood can be overcome, however. I feel that it is good to fall deeply in love with yourself first before entering into deep unconditional bonds..but sometimes waterbrothers can grow and mirror each other and cause one another to grow closer to a picture of personal responsibility and "grow up to" the idealized-but-possible bond of "waterbrothership..." Not something to take lightly...but not something to take too soberly either, but with a clear head and a loving heart. :) :D
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        Re: Water brothers

        Tue, July 31, 2007 - 2:32 PM
        Both of the groups that practice water-brother-hood (CAW and OMS) recognize "levels" (what I am going to show may not be "exactly" what both groups practice, but it's close enough for this discussion): The least intimate level is that of the "world wide brotherhood." Next there is that of the "tribe", and most intimate, is that of the "nest'. When we think of water sharing per SiaSL, we think of the "nest" level, which is the level at which people are having very intimate relations, including sex. But practically speaking, the two groups have recognized that human beings are not entirely "Gods" (and remember that "Godhood" is an important part of being a water brother), so the levels are there so that folks can enter into water brotherhood without having to get too intimate; to allow them to get their feet wet, and allow them growth time so that they can progress if they want to.

        CAW does not practice "catanative assemblage." Oberon long ago wrote a long missive as to why not, that I won't try to quote here. OMS recognizes it but only at the "tribal" and "world wide brotherhood" levels.

        One other important thing: CAW doesn't take the "Thou art God" thing very seriously, or go into it as any more than lip service (in my observance that is and ymmv). OMS actually includes it as a tenet, and certain members have written lessons and essays about it's meaning and achievement. I think CAW attempts to be more mainstream, whereas the OMS approach has been to remain a counter culture.

        If I can find my old copy of their RD101 course I will upload the text of OMS' lessons on water sharing and Godhood.
    • Re: Water brothers

      Sat, July 21, 2007 - 10:35 PM
      Thank you, Bill. I agree.
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        Re: Water brothers

        Wed, August 1, 2007 - 3:49 AM
        "The way Heinlein describes water-brotherhood in his book, it strikes me as being a bond closer than most marriages. Mike, after all, would die instantly if one of his water brothers told him to do so."

        Yes, that is a good description...a true water brother would die, or worse, for another water brother...as well as do wonderful things, such as be best friends, go to the redwoods together and commune in nature...help you out when you are in financial distress, relieve your workload, take time out of each day to grok your godness...talk to you personally and directly with a pure heart...

        Who Mike is...is intrinsically interwoven into water-brotherhood.... He is from another land, and is in a way, half-human (Love), half-linear (Responsibility)... (You can think of this as logic and empathy too, or even brain and heart...)

        Mike appeared in other forms in Heinlein's other works to send the same message of (learning to balance) Unconditional Love and Personal Responsibility: Mike / Michelle in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress; Friday from Friday; Hamilton from Beyond this Horizon; the twin redhead duplicates of our favorite character, and; endless cadets and travelers throughout his book that find that they have "no true home."

        Water-kinship is -- in part -- having an individual (or individuals) in your life that is/are your home, your rock, your stability, your source of absolute love and total responsibility which you can depend on through *all* perceived and real storms.

        Never Thirst,
        J
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    Re: Water brothers

    Mon, August 6, 2007 - 4:04 PM
    Here is the OMS (mithrilstar.org) take on Water sharing:


    Lesson 11: Water Sharing (In the OMS)
    Original by Adam Rostoker and El Arseneau
    Revised and edited by AD Ceridwen Seren-Ddaear




    "The more you love, the more you can love -- and the more intensely
    you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love.
    If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority
    who are decent and just." ~~ Robert A. Heinlein

    The principle "sacrament" of the Order is Water Sharing. You are already familiar with this from Lesson 6, but you may be wondering: Where did it come from? What does it mean? In this lesson we will try to answer that.

    If you've read the late Robert A. Heinlein's novel, Stranger In A Strange Land, you already grok the answer to this question (and you probably grok "grok"). If not, you should have by now. It is probably the most important spiritual work of our time. The novel involves Valentine Michael Smith, whose parents were on a mission to Mars, and left him an orphan there. He was raised and educated by Martians within the wildly different (from our own) Martian culture. Water (at least in the novel) is at a premium there and so water is sacred. To share water with someone is to share something precious and vital. You don't do this with just anyone. You only offer water to someone you would cherish. This is more than friendship; more than marriage; more than love. When you share water you are entering into a lifetime covenant. This is the very essence of perfect love and perfect trust. From this point on everything you are and own belongs to your new "water sibling," and vice versa. This is the ultimate in Communism, since you are sharing not just possessions but mind and body as well.

    Once you have shared water with one or more persons, you have created a covenant with them, and (via "catanative assemblage") to anyone they have shared water with, and so on, and so on. So far I have been able to trust my waterkin (those I have shared water with directly, and those who have shared water with others I have shared with) to do the right thing. To be there when I have needed them, and to have helped when I needed help. In cases where waterkin have made mistakes, and those mistakes have cost me money, I am thankful that they were able to reimburse me in full, even if it took some time. I hope that I have been the same way to them.

    We are trying to build a community of trust and love. A community where when one person feels hurt, the others will try to help in what ever way they can to heal that hurt, whatever it may be. We want our Groves to be places of refuge from the mundane. The home of a Grove leader should be a place where any member can drop in at any time, and be welcomed, fed, and of course offered water. Since we have become an international group now (we have members throughout the US, Canada, Australia, England and even Portugal), those of us traveling should be able to find hospitality among the waterkin wherever they go, and help when they need it.

    Sex? Well, I hope we can be that close, I really do. Although I love all my waterkin, there are definitely a few I would simply never ask, and if they asked I would politely say "no." In any large group, there are going to some you are attracted to, and some you aren't. That's just human nature. No one should feel compelled have to have sex with a water brother.

    In any group it takes time to build trust and love. If there is a frequent turnover of members, that process will take longer. On the other hand, some people will just "click". It's all good. Waiting is.

    I guess what I am getting down to is this: if you decide to share water with someone, do not do it with the expectation of sex (either at the time or in the future). It just might not happen, and anyway, it's totally the wrong motivation. The same goes for being offered water. If you choose to accept, do not do so with the expectation that either now or in the future you will have sex with that person.

    Grok? Share water because you want to add someone to your Grove; to your family. Accept water because you want to be part of that person’s family. That's right: a Grove should, first and foremost, be a "family" functioning out of perfect love and perfect trust. All the other stuff we do; ritual, divination, magick; that's the icing on the cake. The substance is "family," and "community." These are the things we strive to create in OMS.

    Sharing Water can be done as part of a complex ritual, or as a simple rite by itself. The solemnity and seriousness of the rite should be preserved in either case.

    In actual practice, the Order recognizes three distinct levels of water sharing:

    TRIBE Level: Sharing water with other members of the Order or the RDG, either at a public gathering or an online ritual or gathering. (Water sharing as part of the rite of Ordination falls within this level).

    CLAN Level: Sharing water with members of a Grove of their making or choosing, as well as with the Tribe.

    NEST/FAMILY Level: Sharing water with members of their own polyfidelitous "Nest", as well as with the Clan and Tribe.

    (NOTE: Each of these three levels implies a progressively more intimate level of commitment)
  • Re: Water brothers

    Tue, September 11, 2007 - 7:42 PM
    Yay1 My husband and I did a specific water thing at our wedding, and it has expanded to include our mutual girlfriend and another couple in spirit. Friend me!

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